In this episode, CJ interviews Matt Hudson, CFO of Coda, who shares insights from his unique career path that spans roles as a product manager at Google, YouTube, and Coda before becoming a CFO. He breaks down a number of frameworks he’s used in his career from the Blue and Black Loop framework for understanding the growth of a shareable product like Coda’s, Eigenquestions for getting to the one question at the center of all questions, and the Vacation Rule for determining whether to build or buy software tools. Matt also discusses the evolution of Coda's pricing model and offers perspectives on community-driven growth instead of typical product-led growth. He sheds light on how to better understand and work with product managers, how to minimize SaaS sprawl, and the role of luck and failure in one’s success, before sharing nuggets of wisdom from working with notable investors like Mamoon Hamid and Reid Hoffman.

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TIMESTAMPS:

(00:00) Preview and Intro

(02:13) Sponsor – Brex | Planful

(04:30) Matt’s Journey from Product Manager to CFO

(08:59) The Blue and Black Loop Framework

(12:42) Modeling for Growth Loops

(16:32) Why Looking at User Cohorts Can Be Misleading

(17:59) Sponsor – RightRev

(21:08) How Coda’s Pricing Model Has Evolved over Time

(27:37) The Downside to PLG

(31:35) Community-Driven Growth Versus Product-Led Growth

(32:29) The Billing Mechanism for PLG

(34:16) The Biggest Misconceptions About Product Managers

(38:09) Build Versus Buy: The Vacation Rule

(42:43) SaaS Sprawl

(45:45) Eigenquestions

(50:15) Nuggets of Wisdom from Investors

(53:32) Reconciling Hard Work and Luck

(57:05) Long-Ass Lightning Round: Clarity over Comprehensiveness

(1:01:09) Something Matt Wishes He Had Known Earlier

(1:03:19) Finance Software Stack

(1:03:36) Craziest Expense Story