Is the Matrix a Wet Lens?

Russell and special guest Josh Forti dive deep into funnels,  storytelling, and building your own reality. Find out how to break free of what’s expected, how to create your own rules, build your own world, and be OK with being different.

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---Transcript---

Russell Brunson:

What's up, everybody? This is Russell Brunson. Welcome back to The Marketing Secrets podcast. Today, I've got two things for you. Number one, I got kind of a cold so if I sound a little funny, that's why.

Number two, is you guys loved our last three podcast episodes with Josh Forti, so we thought we should do it again. Today, we jumped on a call and we recorded three more episodes for you, and they've been a lot of fun.

The first episode was all about just kind of... It was an interesting conversation, and I think it took us a while to get exactly to the point. But by the end, the end of of it wrapped with some really cool thoughts and ideas and I think some clarifications that'll help you guys a lot.

But it was all about I'm in this world of funnels, and how has that affected my world perspective, my world view and, everything else happening around me? And how does that work for you with the thing that you're most passionate and most obsessed with?

And so I think you guys will enjoy this conversation. With that said, I'll queue up the theme song. When we come back, you have a chance to listen in on a conversation with me and Josh Forti.

What's up, everybody? It's Russell Brunson. Welcome back to The Marketing Secrets podcast. A little while ago, Josh Forti and I did a couple episodes.

We've done this three times now technically. This is the fourth, but we did an episode a little while ago, just to see how you guys liked it. And the feedback was amazing. I got tons of good feedback. I think you did as well, right? You saw everyone.

Josh Forti:

I got tons. I sent you some of them. We convinced somebody to start a podcast over it.

Russell:

Because of the... Yes.

Josh:

Because of the podcast.

Russell:

... podcast. We are having little podcast babies now because of what happened last time we hung out, and I'm pumped. We're jumping back in. We got three episodes of recording today.

I know the title of the topics, but that's about it. I don't know where we're going, the direction, but I'm pumped and excited and just grateful for you, man, doing these. I really enjoyed it last time. I left afterwards pumped and on fire and had a ton of energy, so I'm excited for this.

Josh:

Heck yeah. That's awesome. Well, are you sick?

Russell:

Yes. I have a little stuffy nose, so I apologize in advance if I sound... My voice sounds deeper though, so I sound more masculine which is kind of cool. But yeah, definitely got a little bit of a cold.

Josh:

Oh, man. As long as it's not COVID.

Russell:

Oh, yeah. No, I did that. We're good. The antibodies are flowing through my body, so I'm pretty good there.

Josh:

Heck yeah.

Russell:

Well, what's the plan today? What are we talking about for this episode? Love to get kind of-

Josh:

Are we doing intros or are we just jumping in?

Russell:

This is the intro. I'll do intros.

Josh:

This is it, we're in. We're rocking and rolling.

Russell:

We're live. Let's go.

Josh:

All right, all right. Let's dive in. Dude, interestingly enough, as I went back and I started going... By the way, I actually listened to all three of our episodes, even though we did them. I actually went back and listen, because I'm that geeky nerd.

I was talking to one of my friends. We were sending VOXs back and forth to each other and he's like, "I just listed to my vox back to you." And I'm like, "I'm glad I'm not the only one that does that."

And he's like, "Oh, no, you are the only one. I just did that one time." I'm like, "Crap. Dang it." I go back through it. I listen to VOXs and I listen to podcasts. I'm trying to figure out how I could've made them better.

But what's interesting is I wanted to take this one a little bit of a different route today, to kind of kick things off. Because normally, I'd say there's two types of podcasts.

There's educational podcasts, which is you're talking on a very specific topic, and you're trying to educate people on that.

And then there's entertainment podcasts. Entertainment is much more... Maybe it could be educational still, but it's not designed to educate you on one specific thing, and then break all the beliefs around that thing. And then do the whole perfect webinar thing on a podcast episode. Whatever.

But rather, just kind have an open conversation. And I want to open this one up, talking specifically about funnels. And not funnels and how you build them, but I want to know is funnels a worldview for you?

And what I mean by that is right now, I'm really, really big into storytelling. That's kind of my thing that I'm geeking out about, is how to tell amazing stories.

And I call it the master story. That's the core thing that I'm trying to figure out right now, is the master story for me is what's the one story I got to get people to believe? After they believe that story, they'll do whatever I want them to do. It's the big domino statement of stories.

But as I've done that, I've kind of gone out and everything in my life now revolves around stories. I'm like, "Oh, story there, story there. Oh, that's the story? Oh, that's the story." And my whole life now is just everything is stories.

Obviously, I'm a huge fan of Expert Secrets and Dotcom Secrets, and you wrote those books and everything like that. You talk about kind of building this world and this identity, and bringing everybody in.

And so I'm curious for you, where do funnels play into your life besides just marketing? Is this a worldview? Is this a lens upon which you view the world?

Russell:

Everything. Yes, for sure it is. It's interesting. I still remember back when I first got in this game, and I was learning marketing, and then I started studying Dan Kennedy's stuff and started...

And I remember starting after I got that, some of the initial inputs of this world. What's the Matrix? The red pill or the blue pill. I took the pill and all of a sudden I was like, "Oh, my gosh, I see the world differently."

And for me, it was fascinating. I started loving, I became obsessed. In fact, you can ask my wife this. We first got married, we listened to the radio and commercials would come on and she'd want to change. I'm like, "No, no, no. What are they doing? Did they do a good job did, they do a bad job, and how could they have done it better?"

I started geeking out on that and I started watching more infomercials. I started watching as you go down the highway and you see the billboards. "Okay. That billboard, did it make me do anything, did it not? Was there a call to action, was there not? If there was, what did... "

I'd get my phone out and I call the number and like, "What happened? What was the sales pitch?" And I started seeing behind the curtain of what was happening, and I became obsessed seeing that.

And I remember, this is probably a little bit prior to this, but after I started seeing things I started realizing how things made me feel.

I remember in high school, I was the wrestler, as you know. and I was into my health and fitness. I didn't understand it back then, but I do remember Bill Phillips had a magazine called Muscle Media.

This is probably way before your time. But it was the first muscle building magazine that wasn't... All the other ones were these dudes who were just steroided out. And Muscle Media was the dudes and the ladies in it was who you want to look like. That guys looks amazing.

And he had a supplement company called EAS he launched, and so I got into supplements and got into Bill Phillips. I got into his world, where I was reading his magazine articles and buying his supplementsm and it was cool.

But I remember I wanted to buy some... I can't remember what the new supplement was. And there was a GNC close to my house.And so I remember jumping my bike, riding down to GNC, being so excited to buy a supplement.

And I walked through the door, and as soon as I walked through the door of the GNC, the person came out and was like, "Hey, how can I help you?"

And I'm like, “uh…”, and kind of freaked out. I was like, "Oh, I'm just looking." And I got all nervous and then I kind of wandered away, and then it felt like the person was kind of following me and everything.

And I remember I came there cause I wanted to buy something, but I felt so uncomfortable, excuse me, that eventually I just snuck out and I left. And I was like, "I didn't get the thing."

Because I felt so uncomfortable in the process that even though I came there with my money in hand, ready to buy something, I didn't because I didn't like the process.

And I noticed, I don't know if you ever go into a GNC. As soon as you walk in, they always come and they pounce on you.

And even to this day when I walk into GNC, it's one of my favorite stores. But I know the initial anxiety of the person pouncing on me asking if I can help them, or what I'm looking for.

I'm like, "I don't know what I'm looking for. I want to literally read the back of every label of every bottle here. I'll come to you if I need help, but don't come and pounce on me."

And I started realizing that and I started thinking, "If this was my story, how would I have wanted to be approached?"

And I started thinking the script. And I started thinking if I came in the door and the person says something like, "Hey, welcome to GNC today. I'm over here. If you need anything, let me know." And it was more of a deflect, I would've felt more comfortable. I would've walked around, then I would've felt comfortable coming back the person.

And I just started thinking through that. Anyway, that was before I learned marketing. I remember feeling that way, and as I started studying marketing I was like, "Oh, my gosh. I now know why I felt that way. The script was wrong and the process was wrong." And I started thinking through things more like that.

And I'm sure it was annoying for my family. We'd go to a restaurant and I would notice how did the server do things, and what did they say? And it started opening up for me.

In fact, my junior year in high school during the summer, I got a serving job and I was serving tables. And I remember, because I would split test different things to see what would give me more tips.

If I said this to a person versus this. And I remember in fact, this is a 17 year old kid who's stuck on himself. I'd roll my sleeves. "If my sleeves are rolled up and they see more of my arms, would it be higher?" And literally would split test this thing to try to figure out how to increase them.

And it's just weird. That was when I was young, and definitely it's messed me up nowadays, because it's hard for me when I see every ad, everything. I want to go deep into things, and I do sometimes but sometimes it takes me long rabbit holes. I don't know if that answers the question or not.

Josh:

Okay. Well, I want to kind of dive further down deeper into that, because I want to expand beyond just marketing as well. Because I think any of us as marketers when we have the light bulb turn on, you take the red pill or whatever it is.

I remember for me, I had that first experience with money. I grew up in a very small, small, small town. The two towns collectively combined had 750 people in them, and one bank and a gas station. Very, very small world.

And then I started learning about money, and I'll never forget the day that it clicked for me. I was actually out in... I had already moved to Nebraska, and I started to realize how money flowed.

And I got done reading this book, and I remember I picked up the phone and I called one of my friends who had been teaching me about money.

I'm like, "Dude, I get it now. I get everywhere around. I can't not see how money is flowing and where it works." I'm like this, and now I have all these questions about it.

And so I totally understand when your lights come on, you start seeing the whole world through that, for that specific thing. But I want to know what about other areas of your life, and how funnels and your viewpoint of funnels has affected that.

And what I'm trying to get at and understand, is you talk a lot about in Expert Secrets, we're building this identity, we're building this community, we're building this movement, this calling.

And what's interesting for me I've noticed, is that when I first got into this space, I was so new that the preconceived notions of what people should do or should not do did not affect me. Because I didn't know anything.

I was like, "I know I'm an idiot." people were like, "You're doing that wrong?" I'm like, "Probably." And there was no ego in the way of it.

But then as I grew, I thought there were certain ways that I had to think, or there were certain things that I had to do. And then if I broke free from the mold that everybody else was doing, then somehow that was wrong.

And I struggled with that. Thankfully for me, I didn't stay in there. But what helped me get out of it, is I gave myself permission and I literally was like, "I'm doing my own world over here. Everybody else, they can have whatever it is that they want. They can make more money than me, that's fine. I'm building this own little thing."

And when I envisioned myself stepping into this world, then I was allowed to make my own rules. And so the rules had to follow everything else, but people would be like, "Josh, it's super weird that you think about everything in marketing."

And I'm like, "But that's my world." And so everything about my life, from what I buy, to where I live, to who I hung out with, was all shaped around that.

And for a while, that was weird. And whenever I would go to my friends it was like, "You're weird." And I struggled with that.

But then once I gave myself kind of permission to be like, "Well, that's just literally how I think. That's my world, and it's okay to be different."

That really freed me. And so I'm curious. How has funnels shaped your world outside of only marketing? And what would you tell somebody? Would you tell someone it's okay to like view the world through whatever their new opportunity is, in all aspects of life? Does that make sense?

Russell:

I think so. It's interesting, because I know you're trying to get outside of marketing, but it's fascinating because in my vision of the world, like everything is marketing.

Josh:

That's what I'm saying though. That's what I'm saying.

Russell:

When I meant my wife-

Josh:

How has that affected relationships? When you are dealing with a problem in your family, do like go like, "What's the funnel for this?" Does that make sense?

Russell:

How do we craft the story, the pitch, the thing. But it's true, because I think about when I met my wife. When I met her, there were multiple people who... She was the prospect and multiple people all competing for her attention.

It was like, "Okay. I've got to create a better offer. I'm not the best looking guy, so I got to... What are the tools I have to increase the value of what I have to be more attractive to her?" And things like that.

With my kids right now, it's tough because my kids have got so many distractions and there's things that are way cooler than dad. I'm always trying to think through that lens of, "Okay."

Josh:

Wait, there's people cooler and Russell Brunson? What?

Russell:

You could never be a prophet in your hometown, they say. You're never cool to your own kids. But it's tough though, because I'm competing against all of... For my kids, the rappers that are in their ears, and they're listening to all these people who... That part of the world.

And they got their friends and they got these... There's so many things we're competing against. It's like, "Okay. Well, how do I take them on this journey to be able to help?"

And you talked about universe building, which is true. In fact, I'm working on a project with Dan Kennedy right now, and it's all about that concept of universe building, and things like that.

And you look at the big companies that have done it successfully, that's what they did. Walt Disney built this universe.

In fact, I've listened to the interviewed me and Dan did on Funnel Hacking Live, and he talked about Walt Disney and Hefner were basically the same business.

He's like, "One had bunnies and one had had rabbits or whatever. Or one had mice, one had bunnies." But it's the same business, right? They both had a universe that people came into.

And I think about that. We're doing the same thing. You create a universe for your customers. That's a lot of what the Expert Secrets and everything is about, creating this customer universe.

But it's true in your office with your team, it's true with your family, it's true with your relationships. You're kind of trying to craft this environment that makes people first off want to be there and to be part of it, and then to persuade people to hopefully get the things you're looking for.

All of us are in a persuasion business, even we don't want to admit it. And people are like, "I don't persuade people. I don't manipulate people."

But you are. What do you want to eat for dinner tonight? You got to persuade the other person. What movie do you want to go to? Are we going to go out tonight, or are we going to sit home on the couch?

You're always in this thing of persuasion. And if you look at any kind of sales environment, is the number one. The biggest, one of the most important things when you're trying to sell somebody something, is the, the environment. The universe that you put them in.

It's the reason why if I do a pitch on a virtual event, where somebody is at their own home, in their own environment, and I'm giving them a glimpse in my environment. I can convert and I can sell people.

But I do the exact same presentation at Funnel Hacking Live in a room where I control the environment, they're in my universe. My sales were 5-6X, even though it's the exact same presentation, exact same everything because I'm controlling the environment.

And so my home, same thing. How do I control this environment, my home? And how do I structure things? And how do we set the same things?

You think about in the ClickFunnels ecosystem, we've got these awards. We got the Two Comma Club awards, Two Comma Club X. We have things like that.

How do we create these things for people to strive towards inside of our families? Colette and I did that a couple years ago. We were trying to figure out what's our family goals. Do we have a goal? What does that look like? What's something that we can collectively all work towards together?

And in the Mormon church, one of the biggest goals is you want to get married in the temple. But to get married in the temple, you have to be living worthily. There's all these things to do.

And so as a family, we set a goal. How do you explain it? If my kids get married in the temple, their younger siblings won't be able to go, because they're not old enough to be able to go into the temple to actually witness the marriage.

The goal we set as a family, we set a goal of when Nora... Because Nora is the youngest. When Nora gets married, the goal is we'd love her to get married in the temple, and we want all of our family to be there. Which means all of our family has lived in a way where we're worthy to be there together as the family.

That became our family goal, and it's this thing we're all shooting towards. And it's fun, because now when I'm having family conversations with my kids, it's like, "Hey, you shouldn't be doing that." It's like, "Hey, these are things that are keeping us away from our family goal."

We want to do this thing in 10 years from now, 15 years ago, Nora... But the way you're living, you're not going to be able to do that.

And it's less of me trying to tell them what to do, as much as this is the goal we collectively set as a family. This is what we're trying to get to.

Same thing in Marketing, we're trying to get the Two Comma Club award, cool. You can go listen to forty other gurus if you want, but this is the path. This is the process. We can get you there, but if you're distracted...

It's just kind of a similar thing where, you set the things inside the universe, the goals, the steps. And hopefully, everyone... Not that they will or that they want to. Maybe my kids decide they hate the universe and they want to break out of it, and that can happen, too.

People don’t think funnels are cool, because they don't like me. I talk too fast or I'm annoying or whatever, and they enter different a different universe, but that's okay.

Josh:

Yeah. And I think entering a different universe, I think maybe what I'm trying to get at is I grew up, once again, super small town. Super small world, and I just figured there was a way the world worked. Singular. That's how it worked.

And as I've grown up, I was striving to figure that out. I'm like, "What's the way the world works?" And I get out there and I'm like, "Oh, my gosh. There's five million different ways the world works."

And depending upon whose world old that you're in. And so I was watching the football game last night. We had it on. It was the Steelers and the Vikings. I don't know.

By the way, I know you don't watch football, but I'm going to make a prediction on here for all my football fans out there. Patriots are going to the Super Bowl versus Tom Brady.

It's going to be Tom Brady and the Bucks versus Bill Belichick and the Patriots in the Super Bowl. Anyway, we're watching it last night and they have this documentary that's coming out. Do you know who John Madden is?

Russell:

Yeah. Just from the video game.

Josh:

Yeah. They have this whole thing on Madden and his whole life. And it's coming out, this documentary, and they do little clips, and there's all these different little people talking about it.

And they're like, "This dude, you couldn't be around him and not love football. Because he just exuded football in every aspect of his life. At the dinner table, around his family, around his friends, at the... Football, football, football, football."

And it got me thinking, because I'm preparing for this interview last night. And I'm like, "That guy's whole life was football. That's how it came about. He couldn't imagine a reality where football didn't exist.

"Yet there's somebody else out. There's millions, billions of people out in this world who they never heard of or think about or want anything to do with football."

And so here's a guy where his whole life revolves around football. All of his analogies, all of his stories, all of his strategies, everything was football all.

And then I was like, "Oh, I wonder if that's what it's like living with Russell." Everything is funnels. And it's like funnels, funnels, funnels, funnels, funnels.

I feel like sometimes as entrepreneurs, I know I struggled with this for a while, and I struggled with this a lot more when I didn't know what I wanted to do with my life. When I was still trying to figure out my voice and kind of everything like that.

But I'm like, "I just can't be the X guy, because that would be weird. That's not how reality works. That's not how life works. You don't just get to just focus on all of this."

But I feel like it is. And I feel like you don't necessarily have to be a single thing guy, but I feel like you can. In the sense of...

And that's why I'm trying to get at with you, is I feel like you've gone into this world and you've found the thing that works. And you've said, "Hey, listen, basically, in life you have to know where it is that you're going and how it is that you're going to get there."

That's essentially in life, and that's kind of my core premise of everything. I'm like, "I don't care how you live in life." But I'm like, "If you don't know where you're going and how you're going to get there, your life is going to suck. You're not going to have a very fulfilled life."

And so I feel like for you, you've figured out, "Okay. Wherever I want to get, this is the vehicle I'm going to use." And you've built an entire reality and universe around that. Yeah?

Russell:

Yeah, for sure. And it's interesting though, too, because I actually was on a call last night with Stu McLaren at their prediction college here, and he was asking my predictions for the future.

And it's interesting because yes, funnels is the thing. It's my lens. And that's what people come to me. It's the lens they come through.

But what I think is fascinating, and I see this with... In fact, I told Stu, I'm like, "There's an evolution. People were experts for a while and then they became influencers."

And I think the next phase, it won't stick. People will still call themselves influencers, because it sounds cool and they feel the significance of that. But I think the next phase is people are going to become curators more so.

Which is someone comes to me for funnels, but it's interesting because my last inner circle meeting, people pay 50 grand to be in the room. There's 100 people in this room and they're here because they want to learn funnels from Russell.

We're talking about funnels and then we open for Q&A. And guess how many funnel questions came through? Zero. The questions were, "Russell, I came to you for funnels, but I trust you. I like you."

And they didn't say this, but this is what happened, is they wanted to figure out how I curate. They wanted me to curate other thoughts for them.

"I trust you in this, therefore what do you think about religion?" And they want me to take all my years of curation of all the ideas like, "This is what I believe." Or they're like, "How is your family successful?"

And so they asked me these other questions. And I was telling Stu last night. I'm like, "Stu, you're the membership guy. People come from your memberships. But after they come in, that's what brings them into the door, but then they're coming because they want your curation of other ideas."

Dan Usher. I think Dan on our team. It was fascinating, because his favorite band is Rufus or something like that. I don't really know the band that well.

But he's obsessed with them and their music, and so he follows them, he loves them and everything. And he just bought his first house out here in Boise, so he needed to get art on the wall. He's like, "Well, I love Rufus. I trust them. They've curated their favorite art."

He went and bought everything that Rufus ever said they like for art and put it on his wall. He's like, "Cool. Because I trust them, therefore I want this." And then he bought the furniture that they have in their house, because he trusts their opinion on this and other things.

And so I think it's with Madden, I'm sure the football is what brings people in. And they come in there, they sit at the table for that.

But then if they like him and they connect with him, then they want to know, "What else do you know?” I want to go down these other rabbit holes with you, because I trust you and I trust your opinion. I trust because you've already kind of done that."

I think for me, that's probably more so, is they come in from one thing, but then if they connect with you then they want to dive deep on all the other pieces, the things that you find fascinating.

Josh:

Yeah. It's almost like they need the in to step into your universe, and then you get to build the rest of the universe out for them simply because you've built trust in that one area.

Russell:

Yeah. And what's fascinating. If you rewind back in my history 15 years ago, it was tough because when I was trying to create my universe, I didn't know that's what it was called.

But it was funny. If you look at the landscape in our industry back then, it was interesting. Jeff Walker was the launch guy, Frank Kern was the mass control guy, Filsaime was the butterfly marketing person.

Everyone had a thing where they were the best. Brad Fallon was SEO, and then you had Perry Marshall was PPC, and everyone had their thing. And I came in, I was good at all of this. I'm like, "I'm the guy who do everything."

And I'd go to events like, "Cool, what do you do?" I'm like, "What do you need? I'm good at copywriting, and I can do all the things." And people are like, "Oh, okay."

But then they'd go and they'd sign up for Jeff for launch. And I'm like, "I can do launch. I've done tons of launches." Or they'd go to whoever for copywriting, John Carlton for copywriting. I'm like, "God, I've done all these things."

But there wasn't a thing. It wasn't until I specialize in. "Okay. Funnels is the thing." And it was a narrow focus where people could attach a thing in their head like, "Oh, Russell is the guy who does funnels."

And they do that. But they come into the... That's the doorway that brings them into my world. But inside the funnel world, what is there? You can launch a funnel. There's copywriting, there's traffic driving, there's all these other things.

But I had to bring them in through a channel they could connect with, they could label me with. You know what I mean? But after they're in my universe, there's all sorts of stuff I can do with him.

Josh:

I feel like that right there was the core of what I was trying to get after. I think a lot of people struggle with or are afraid to claim their thing, because they're like, "I can't just claim it."

Funnels. Russell could claim funnels because that was a thing, but was it a thing before Russell? Was there a funnel... You are the one that came in and nobody came to you and was like, "Russell, you're the funnel guy. Go." You were the one that had to decide that. You were the one that had to come in and be like…

Russell:

And it's fascinating, because I was the only one back then talking about it. There was a bunch of people. In fact, I remember Todd and I started building ClickFunnels. And I remember about that time it was T&C, so it was the T&C before we launched ClickFunnels.

And we got T&C, we were sitting in the audience, and Todd and I are mapping things out, and we're talking back and forth. And the entire T&C, that event was about funnels.

And so Ryan was on stage, Perry was on stage talking about funnels they developed. "This is the funnel framework for all funnels." They sold the $18,000 funnel coaching program and half the room signed up, and all this stuff.

And I was like, "Oh, my gosh. That's what we're trying to go, but they just took it from us." And then it was crazy. After that T&C, then everyone was talking about funnels.

And it was funny, because the next week everyone became a funnel consultant. All of a sudden, 2,000 little funnel consultants were running around the internet talking about funnels.

And I remember Mike Filsaime had done something showing behind the scenes of one of his funnels, and I remember somebody else got mad. I'm like, "We're the funnel person. You shouldn't be talking about this us."

And I remember Mike and him were fighting back and forth. I was kind of watching this and I was like, "We have this software coming out called ClickFunnels. And I have this book I'm writing that's almost done called Dotcom Secrets, which is all about funnels."

And so I was stepping in this thing where there was a whole bunch of noise around this topic, and I could have been like, "Who am I? I'm not qualified." Whatever.

But instead I was like, "You know what? This is what I'm obsessed with. And I'm just going to do my thing, and I don't care about everybody else."

And so I just did my thing and came out there, and there were people who... I can't tell the actual stories, but there were people who were upset. "You shouldn't be talking about this, Russel. This is so and so's thing."

And then at TNC the next year, there was some weird comments from stage made about stuff. Because in fact, somebody said from stage, "Because of what we talked about last year at T&C, Russell created ClickFunnels because of us." And they gave them credit for this thing.

And it was just this craziness. But man, we were the only ones who took it and that were consistent, consistent, consistent, consistent. I'm seven, almost eight years into the consistency, which is how you define the path.

That's how you get the... You look at Jeff Walker, who's been talking about product launches for 20 years. Therefore, he's the product launch guy. People try to come dethrone him, but he's been consistently talking about the same thing for so long that you can't.

And so the biggest thing is picking the platform, and then you just triple down on it and you keep doing it, and doing it, and doing it. And eventually, you will rise the Victor. But most people don't have the longterm, the patients to keep just drilling in for long enough to make it stick.

Josh:

Yeah. And I think that a lot of times, at least in my experience, and it could be different for other people. But a lot of times, it's because you're just not confident enough in it.

The only thing that's going to be the difference of whether or not it's going to stick or not, is whether or not you're confident enough to follow through.

That's not necessarily true for every single product universally. Sometimes the market doesn't fit, and sometimes there really is... If you tried to launch a competitor to iPhone right now, you're probably not going to make it.

But generally speaking, especially in our world with funnels and experts and a lot of online influencer marketing and things of that nature. It's basically whoever sticks at it the longest and then creates the clearest, simplest stories, the clearest, simplest frameworks, and the easiest way for people to be able to get results with it, are the ones that are actually going to make it and follow through.

Russell:

Yeah. That’s the game, and it’s so much fun.

Josh:

All right. Well, I'm ready to move onto topic number two here. We're about at time.

Russell:

All right.

Josh:

You ready to rock and roll?

Russell:

We'll wrap it up. Thank you guys for listening. If you enjoyed this, let us know. Otherwise, we'll never do this again, so if you loved it, tag me and Josh on Facebook, Instagram, wherever you guys do stuff. If you tweet, I probably won't see it there, but tweet it up and let us know, and we'll come back and do some more of this stuff.

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