Suzi speaks with historian Robert Brenner and sociologist Dylan Riley about the deeper meaning of Trump’s return to power.

Is Trump just a narcissistic strongman — or the carrier of a coherent counterrevolutionary project? Brenner and Riley argue that Trumpism is not a return to the past but an attempt to reorganize society for a future in which capitalism can no longer grow — only command, police, and exclude.

They trace the roots of Trump Two to decades of economic stagnation, the collapse of US hegemony, the failure of Bidenomics, and a deep class split between credentialed and non-credentialed workers.

They describe Trumpism as a reactionary social revolution from above, aimed at dismantling the social bases of liberal democracy. Its pillars include the attack on universities, the expansion of the security state as an ICE jobs program, AI as a form of class warfare undermining credentialed labor, and the dismantling of the international order.

It’s a wide-ranging conversation about empire without growth, class politics under stagnation, and the future of the left in what Brenner and Riley call the wilderness of contemporary capitalism.

Jacobin Radio with Suzi Weissman features conversations with leading thinkers and activists, with a focus on labor, the economy, and protest movements.

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