Welcome to a new episode of The Way Out Is In: The Zen Art of Living, a podcast series mirroring Zen Master Thich Nhat Hanh’s deep teachings of Buddhist philosophy: a simple yet profound methodology for dealing with our suffering, and for creating more happiness and joy in our lives.

In this installment, Zen Buddhist monk Brother Phap Huu and leadership coach/journalist Jo Confino discuss the importance of creating inner space and stillness through meditation practices. But what does it actually mean to create more space in our lives? And why is this important, and how do we go about it?

The conversation emphasises that the practice of meditation is not just about achieving enlightenment, but about becoming more present, compassionate, and engaged with the world. It touches upon the difficulties of finding space in modern life, the benefits of different meditation techniques, and misconceptions around enlightenment.

The hosts also share personal experiences, including insights about how meditation has deepened their practice and allowed them to navigate challenges with greater flexibility and understanding.

The episode ends with a meditation guided by Brother Phap Huu.

Co-produced by the Plum Village App:
https://plumvillage.app/

And Global Optimism:
https://globaloptimism.com/

With support from the Thich Nhat Hanh Foundation:
https://thichnhathanhfoundation.org/

List of resources

Pilgrimage: In the Footsteps of the Buddha
https://plumvillage.org/event/pilgrimage/in-the-footsteps-of-the-buddha-2

Being with Busyness: Zen Ways to Transform Overwhelm and Burnout
https://www.parallax.org/product/being-with-busyness/

Calm in the Storm: Zen Ways to Cultivate Stability in an Anxious World
https://www.parallax.org/product/calm-in-the-storm/

Course: Zen and The Art of Saving the Planet
https://plumvillage.org/courses/zen-and-the-art-of-saving-the-planet

Interbeing
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Interbeing

Plum Village Tradition
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Plum_Village_Tradition

‘Resources for Practicing the 16 Exercises of Mindful Breathing’
https://plumvillage.app/resources-for-practicing-the-16-exercises-of-mindful-breathing/

‘Making the App More Inclusive: Introducing the ‘Access to Practice’ Folder’
https://plumvillage.app/introducing-the-access-to-practice-folder/

Robert Thurman
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Robert_Thurman

Mahayana
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mahayana

Bodhisattvas
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bodhisattva

The Way Out Is In: ‘The Three Doors of Liberation (Episode #18)’
https://plumvillage.org/podcast/the-three-doors-of-liberation-episode-18

Sister Chan Lang Nghiem
https://plumvillage.org/people/dharma-teachers/sr-lang-nghiem

Quotes

“Walking meditation was our teacher’s favorite practice and it was really a life-changing cultivation for him. Because, particularly when we are very emotional – whether that be grief, agony, pain, anger, frustration – it is probably better to be in a state of motion.”

“The Buddha has said, What are we mindful of? We are mindful of our suffering. Why do we practice? To liberate ourselves and all beings from suffering. That is the greatest vow of a monk or a nun: to find liberation in oneself and liberation in all.”

“There are so many creations of senses – what we see, what we hear, what we smell, what we taste – to help us cope with our suffering. And when we are suffering, whether that suffering is very petite, a daily concern, or is a generational trauma, we don’t have language for how to be with that suffering. Therefore, we look for a way out – and the world loves giving us a prescription of, ‘If you do this, you will feel that.’”

“Sometimes silence is a chance for us to be in touch with deep suffering or deep experiences that our noise has covered up. As a meditator, space gives us the barrier and boundaries to listen and to hold. If we don’t create that space, we will be on autopilot for the rest of our life. Our mind is on autopilot; it has a way of thinking, a way of doing, a way of perceiving, of creating perceptions, creating judgment. So when we meditate and have the opportunity to listen to and then to guide the mind, it gives the mind a chance to not also be carried away by its own habits – which is thinking.”

“Thinking is not a bad thing. Like our teacher has always transmitted to us, thinking is a part of creating a view in life, a project, a mission, an intention. But most of our thinking is not productive. It is actually more daydreaming, it is more procrastination. It is more like a zombie, in a way, or a sleepwalker. It has no destination; it’s just on autopilot.”

“Many people feel they have to sit on a cushion, they have to have a shrine, they have to light incense, they have to light a candle – which of course can be very beautiful and give a good atmosphere for meditation. But you can also do it on a busy bus or train, or as you’re sitting on a park bench. It’s not about taking things out of your life; it’s about allowing life to be.”

“Sometimes we sit just to enjoy sitting and doing nothing, because maybe that’s the one gift that we want to give to ourselves – because we’re always doing, we’re always in fifth gear. Sometimes we need a radical act: to sit and do nothing, to give and create and redefine space for ourselves.”

“How can we keep mindfulness alive if we are not cultivating it? Sitting meditation is one of the concrete cultivation practices.”

“There is right mindfulness and wrong mindfulness. We could be a wonderful burglar with full concentration – but we would be creating suffering. So right mindfulness relieves suffering; it is about understanding suffering and heading towards the path of understanding and love.”

“One time our teacher told us that sometimes insight doesn’t come during sitting meditation, but when it’s ripe. Maybe when we’re most relaxed: when we’re not thinking about it, but are living the moment very deeply. And Thay told us that, a lot of the time, it would come while he was gardening or doing walking meditation. But sitting meditation is the cultivation; it is like a gardener tending the seeds of insights to help us have a moment of, ‘Ah, I get it.’”

“The practice is maybe just continuing to unlearn things, in order to learn again.”

“There is no way to peace. Peace is the way.”

“Sitting is already action. When we sit in this way and have new insight, that will become the thread of so many actions coming forward. So don’t underestimate the power of sitting still; yes, we have apps and guided meditations, but also build the capacity of generating your own guide. And that breath is there, that body is there. Then the community is there – and that’s the beauty of a tradition.”

“Whenever we speak about enlightenment, enlightenment of what? What do we want to be enlightened from or towards? Then, later on – like in my own growth – I see that enlightenment is a verb; it is a continuous enlighten-ing. You cannot be enlightened today, December the 9th, and expect that enlightenment to stay the same in 2028. Because things are changing; we are changing. The world is changing.”

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