Ep. 206 (Part 1 of 2) | In this extraordinary, compelling conversation, visionary, activist, and long-time politician, former Governor of California Jerry Brown gets right to the heart of the things that matter most. From truth seeking on an individual level (the importance of inquiring into the depths of our reality), to the challenge of our democracy (getting a consensus in a population that has no coherence), to the problem of leadership (now it’s all about winning, which works on the football field but not for international relations), the fear and greed that drive the arms race (we’re not talking about the arms issue, and to not talk about it is to be complicit), and the existential danger of nuclear war (as important as it is underreported), Jerry nails the essence of our most pressing issues.

Jerry’s deep concern about the existential threats we face today, such as nuclear war and climate change, is matched by his enthusiasm for life and excitement over the fact that the future is unknowable. “We have to turn,” he says, “and everyone can contribute to amplifying the turn.” We discover some of the key formative events that shaped Jerry’s keenly discerning character, so evident throughout his career and still today in his eighties, and why co-host Roger Walsh describes him as a “force of nature.” This conversation is thoroughly enjoyable, inspirational, eye opening, and disturbing too. “We are on the brink, but no one wants to hear it,” Jerry says. “How do you speak the truth in a way it can be heard?” Recorded August 7, 2025.

“We should not sleep in the delusion that things are better than they are.”

Topics & Time Stamps – Part 1

Introducing former Governor of California, Jerry Brown (00:43)
Jerry’s Jesuit background and the transformative process (02:29)
What shaped Jerry’s orientation to life? Growing up in a more innocent, unambiguous time in San Francisco (04:10)
Today’s chaos and confusion is what led to the presidency of Donald Trump (10:20)
The challenge in a democracy is getting a consensus—right now the “We” in “We the People” doesn’t have coherence (14:44)
Today the democratic ideal is up for grabs; it’s zero-sum—all about winning, and the payoff for scapegoating is very high (15:52)
We need an enormous amount of resources to address our problems, but using tax dollars requires a public belief and commitment that is not there (17:41)
The doomsday clock is ticking, the dangers are growing: nuclear, bio, climate, AI, satellites & weaponry (21:42)
Planetary realism and the need to work together: shared vulnerability needs to give rise to shared interest (26:35)
What can we do as individuals? Where you can be helpful and human and responsive, do that (32:05)
We are in the power of forces that a) we don’t control and b) we can’t do anything about (35:50)
We are on the brink, but no one wants to hear it: how do you speak the truth in a way it can be heard? (36:57)
Sitting Zazen in the face of what’s happening (39:32)
Jesuit slogan: Do what you’re doing (age quod agis) (42:20)

Resources & References – Part 1

Jerry Brown, Executive Chair of the the Bulletin of the Atomic Scientists
Jerry Brown, Chair of the California-China Climate Institute at UC Berkeley
The Doomsday Clock
William (Bill) Perry, My Journey at the Nuclear Brink
Barry McGuire song “Eve of Destruction” (1965)
Jerry Brown, A Stark Nuclear Warning (2016 NY Times book review of William Parry’s book)
Viktor Frankl, Man’s Search for Meaning
Lawrence Langer, Holocaust scholar who criticized Viktor Frankl’s book
Werner Erhard, “Life is empty and meaningless, and it’s empty and meaningless that it’s empty and meaningless.”
Age quod agis, “Digging Deeper: Age Quod Agis”

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Jerry Brown was born in San Francisco on April 7, 1938. He was elected Trustee for the LA Community College District in 1969, California Secretary of State in 1970, and Governor of California in 1974 and 1978. After his governorship, he lectured and traveled widely, practiced law, served as chair of the California Democratic Party and ran for president. Brown was elected Mayor of Oakland in 1998, California Attorney General in 2006, and Governor again in 2010 and 2014. Brown currently serves as chair of the California-China Climate Institute at UC Berkeley, executive chair of the Bulletin of the Atomic Scientists, chair of the UC Institute on Global Conflict and Cooperation Advisory Board, on the board of the Council on Criminal Justice, and as chair of the Oakland Military Institute College Preparatory Academy, one of two public charter schools he founded in Oakland more than 20 years ago.

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Podcast produced by Vanessa Santos and Show Notes by Heidi Mitchell

My Journey at the Nuclear Brink

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