I chat with Chaz Self of Grassway Organics about his fight to keep selling raw milk in Wisconsin, the decline of small dairy farms, and what the future of farming might look like amid consolidation, regulation and new technology.

Chaz is a first-generation dairy farmer who runs Grassway Organics with his wife in East Troy, Wisconsin, managing roughly 640 acres and milking around 50 cows in a grass-based, seasonal dairy system.

A lot has changed since Chaz was last on the show. Grassway is now in an ongoing dispute with Wisconsin’s Department of Agriculture, Trade and Consumer Protection over how the farm sells raw milk, with Chaz preparing for a legal fight that he believes could become extremely expensive. We get into how his ownership model works, why he believes the farm has operated legally, and why he has decided to keep pushing rather than step away.

We also look at what has happened to Wisconsin dairy more broadly: fewer farms producing more milk, increasing consolidation, overproduction, subsidies and whether relatively simple changes like putting more young cattle back onto pasture could begin moving the system in another direction. We talk about Farm Bureau, social media and the growing political divide around food, before getting into the future of agricultural technology.

Thanks for listening.

What we cover:

Grassway Organics’ raw milk fight with Wisconsin
The decline and consolidation of Wisconsin dairy
Subsidies, grazing and possible paths forward
Farm Bureau, social media and polarization around food
AI, farm technology and what farming is actually for

Timestamps:

00:00 – Catching up with Chaz Self
02:01 – The raw milk fight in Wisconsin
10:07 – The cost of fighting regulation
19:48 – Lobbying for raw milk
26:28 – What happened to Wisconsin dairy?
29:23 – Could grazing help fix dairy?
34:31 – Does Farm Bureau represent farmers?
37:28 – Social media, politics and agriculture
44:52 – Rebuilding community around farms
53:41 – AI and technology on the farm
57:58 – Agricultural data and automation
1:01:29 – What is farming actually for?

Links & resources mentioned:

Website
Instagram
Facebook
Raw Milk Institute (RAWMI) — rawmilkinstitute.org

Mark McAfee / RAWMI team — RAWMI team page

Vernon Hershberger raw milk case — Wisconsin Court of Appeals case

Green Lake Association / John Strauser — Green Lake Association team

Joel Salatin / Polyface Farm — Polyface Farm

Wisconsin DATCP — Wisconsin Department of Agriculture, Trade and Consumer Protection

Wisconsin Farm Bureau Federation — Wisconsin Farm Bureau

Wisconsin Farm Bureau policy page — Farm Bureau agricultural policy

I Want to Be a Farmer

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